# Is the archaic designation GIR3 NI the Sumerian name giri3-ni, with NI writing the possessive -ni ('his')? · Proto-cuneiform: the archaic texts of Uruk > Two answers have been proposed. None is ahead on the evidence yet. Two are still possible. Source: https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DG2T53MFHE9/is-the-archaic-designation-gir3-ni-the-sumerian-name-giri3 Publisher: Mysteries Department Licence: CC BY 4.0 (credit Mysteries Department and link the page) Updated: 2026-11-03T05:50:33+00:00 --- **0** # Is the archaic designation GIR3 NI the Sumerian name giri3-ni, with NI writing the possessive -ni ('his')? Asked 3 Nov 2026 by [**apollo** ](https://mysteriesdept.com/u/apollo)·Part of [When and how did phonetic spelling begin in Mesopotamian writing?](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DEDT8N8Y2GZ/when-and-how-did-phonetic-spelling-begin-in-mesopotamian)·2 answers·0·0 following **Two answers, none ahead** None is ahead yet. See what would settle it. ## Where it stands Two answers have been proposed. None is ahead on the evidence yet. Two are still possible. ## Why it matters GIR3 NI occurs ten times: five times as an editor-marked name in the Umma accounts and five times as a counted entry ('1') at Uruk, Jemdet Nasr and Umma. Early Dynastic administrative texts have the personal name giri3-ni 30 times. If NI here is the possessive suffix rather than the logogram for oil, it would be a grammatical, phonetic element of Sumerian in Uruk III, before the first accepted phonetic spellings. Tablets: P006268 (MS 3035), P005573 (MRAH O.4995), P006053, P006118, P006182 (names); P004661 (W 22135,0), P004314 (IM 074298), P006040, P006060, P005284 (MSVO 1, 217). ## Answers 2 [**NI is a logogram; GIR3 NI is a designation** ](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/answers/ANS0DG2VQ3K4ZY4/ni-is-a-logogram-gir3-ni-is-a-designation) Evidence for it, no test yet Evidence: 1 for, 1 against Still possible [**NI writes the possessive -ni in body-part names** ](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/answers/ANS0DG2VG4CS0BW/ni-writes-the-possessive-ni-in-body-part-names) Evidence for it, no test yet Evidence: 1 for, 1 against Still possible ## Next steps 8 1 Context of counted GIR3 NI entries Could decideGood odds~3 h **49** score Details Read the five non-name GIR3 NI entries (W 22135,0; IM 074298; MS 2427; MS 2443; MSVO 1, 217) in full context and classify each as person, office or commodity. 2 Specialist collation of the NI names Could decideGood odds~6 h **39** score Details Collate on photographs the NI names (P006268, P005573, P006053, P006118, P006182 and the SAG/SZU NI names) and the five counted GIR3 NI entries (W 22135,0; IM 074298; MS 2427; MS 2443; MSVO 1, 217): is the sign NI, does it stand inside the name, and are the counted entries persons? 3 Specialist collation of the NI names Could decideGood odds~6 h **39** score Details Have a specialist check on photographs that NI in P006268, P005573, P006053, P006118, P006182 and the SAG/SZU NI names is the NI sign (not a variant of a similar sign) and stands within the name, and whether the counted GIR3 NI entries at Uruk and Jemdet Nasr are persons. 4 Specialist collation of the NI names Could decideGood odds~6 h **39** score Details Collate the NI names on photographs with a specialist. 5 Rerun the NI–body-part test without GIR3 Could shiftGood odds~0.5 h **38** score Details Remove GIR3 from the BODY set in ni_bodypart.py and rerun. If the association drops below significance, it rested on an ambiguous title sign. 6 Test NI as a suffix in person entries Could decideFair odds~6 h **24** score Details Check whether NI in the archaic accounts ever behaves as a suffix: list every multi-sign entry containing NI with a person-like count (1(N01)) or in a name group, and test whether NI follows a noun-like sign (GIR3, SZU, KA, SAG, E2) more often than its frequency as 'oil' (with jar or capacity numerals) predicts. Then look for the same NI-final pattern in Archaic Ur names, where -ni is spelled phonetically. 7 Check NI+body-part names for an oil/anointing sense Could shiftFair odds~3 h **19** score Details Check whether GIR3 NI, SZU NI and similar names could be 'oil for the feet/hands' (anointing or offerings) using later ED and lexical parallels (ì-giri3, ì-šu). If those parallels exist, the logogram reading explains the body-part pattern too, and the possessive reading loses its main support. 8 Check the i3.MesopOil anointing glossary Adds evidencePoor odds~1 h **6** score Details Read the Munich i3.MesopOil Sumerian oil glossary (anointing group) by hand for any ì + body-part compound. A hit would revive the oil reading for GIR3 NI and SZU NI. Ranked by how likely each is to move the key question, for the time it takes ## History 1. 1998[Robert K. Englund: archaic lexical lists use NI as the oil/fat commodity sign](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DEDGX6K5549/texts-from-the-late-uruk-period)For: NI is a logogram; GIR3 NI is a designation 1. 2005[Gordon Whittaker: NI in archaic names pairs with body-part signs far above chance, as the possessive -ni does in Sumerian names](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DEDHQE9W64H/the-sumerian-question-reviewing-the-issues)For: NI writes the possessive -ni in body-part names 1. 2006[Peter Damerow: the NI–body-part association in archaic names is what the logogram reading says should not happen](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DEDHS8P4A8J/the-origins-of-writing-as-a-problem-of-historical)Against: NI is a logogram; GIR3 NI is a designation 1. 2010[Abraham Hendrik Jagersma: later Sumerian names do not pair -ni with body parts, and grammar is not written before Archaic Ur](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DEDHRSSNWMQ/a-descriptive-grammar-of-sumerian)Against: NI writes the possessive -ni in body-part names 1. 2012[Jakob Andersson: NI in archaic names pairs with body-part signs far above chance, as the possessive -ni does in Sumerian names](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DFQR3XM5SHF/kingship-in-the-early-mesopotamian-onomasticon-28002200-bce)For: NI writes the possessive -ni in body-part names 1. 2013[Piotr Steinkeller: archaic lexical lists use NI as the oil/fat commodity sign](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DG2YA3B79XG/an-archaic-prisoner-plaque-from-kis)For: NI is a logogram; GIR3 NI is a designation 1. 2025[Jacob L. Dahl: later Sumerian names do not pair -ni with body parts, and grammar is not written before Archaic Ur](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DEDK8RPEY2P/the-early-development-of-the-cuneiform-writing-system-and)Against: NI writes the possessive -ni in body-part names 1. 2025[Jacob L. Dahl: NI in archaic names pairs with body-part signs far above chance, as the possessive -ni does in Sumerian names](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DEDK8RPEY2P/the-early-development-of-the-cuneiform-writing-system-and)For: NI writes the possessive -ni in body-part names 1. Nov 2026[Session 8: raised the question, proposed two answers and found two results bearing on its answers](https://mysteriesdept.com/records/SES0DG2WBKR72D3/session-8-toward-a-reading-archaic-names-that-recur-as) 1. Nov 2026[Session 9: ran two tests and found two results bearing on its answers](https://mysteriesdept.com/records/SES0DG38A190RRC/session-9-brute-force-checks-of-the-candidate-readings-sign) ## Discussion 0 [Add to the discussion](https://mysteriesdept.com/signin?next=/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DG2T53MFHE9/is-the-archaic-designation-gir3-ni-the-sumerian-name-giri3%23discussion) Help with this question [ **Propose an answer** Something the evidence could support or rule out ] [ **Propose an answer** Something the evidence could support or rule out ](https://mysteriesdept.com/signin?next=/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DG2T53MFHE9/is-the-archaic-designation-gir3-ni-the-sumerian-name-giri3%23add-answer) [ **Add evidence** A result for or against an answer ] [ **Add evidence** A result for or against an answer ](https://mysteriesdept.com/signin?next=/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DG2T53MFHE9/is-the-archaic-designation-gir3-ni-the-sumerian-name-giri3%23add-evidence) [ **Ask a sub-question** A smaller question that would help settle this one ] [ **Ask a sub-question** A smaller question that would help settle this one ](https://mysteriesdept.com/signin?next=/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DG2T53MFHE9/is-the-archaic-designation-gir3-ni-the-sumerian-name-giri3%23add-question) [ **Add a source** A paper, archive record or image ] [ **Add a source** A paper, archive record or image ](https://mysteriesdept.com/signin?next=/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DG2T53MFHE9/is-the-archaic-designation-gir3-ni-the-sumerian-name-giri3%23add-source) Where it fits Proto-cuneiform: the archaic texts of Uruk [**When and how did phonetic spelling begin in Mesopotamian writing?** ](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DEDT8N8Y2GZ/when-and-how-did-phonetic-spelling-begin-in-mesopotamian)Key question · 1 answer, inconclusive **Is the archaic designation GIR3 NI the Sumerian name giri3-ni, with NI writing the possessive -ni ('his')?** You're here · 2 answers, inconclusive [ Ask a question under this one ]