# Proto-writing · Concept > A sign system that records information without recording the sounds or words of a language. Source: https://mysteriesdept.com/concepts/CPT0DEDY0RSVT00/proto-writing Publisher: Mysteries Department Licence: CC BY 4.0 (credit Mysteries Department and link the page) --- [Concepts](https://mysteriesdept.com/concepts)Proto-writing Concept · writing systems · in 4 mysteries # Proto-writing A sign system that records information without recording the sounds or words of a language. [Vinča signs](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs)[Indus script](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/indus-script)[Proto-cuneiform: the archaic texts of Uruk](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform)[1 source] Proto-writing is a system of signs that conveys meaning directly, by what the signs stand for, rather than by spelling the words of a spoken language. A tally of sheep, a sign for barley beside a number, a seal naming an office: each records something, and a reader who knows the conventions can recover it in any language. Writing in the full sense adds a tie to speech, usually by the rebus principle, so that a sign can stand for a sound and any word can be written. The distinction matters for this site because an undeciphered proto-writing system has no language to decipher: the task is to reconstruct the bookkeeping, not to find the tongue. Damerow used the term for proto-cuneiform and dated full writing in Mesopotamia to the third millennium [@damerow2006origins]; the same question is live for proto-Elamite, the Indus signs and the Inka khipu. The test is whether the signs show any dependence on a particular language: phonetic spellings, word order, grammatical marking. ## Where it comes up **[Vinča signs](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs)** The corpus is mixed: most signs are pottery marks and whorl ornament, and a minority of longer sequences form a non-phonetic notation of limited scope that is neither writing nor proto-writing. [Q: Is there any sign of a numeral system beyond simple stroke tallies?](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs/questions/QST0DEDWA56YBKS/is-there-any-sign-of-a-numeral-system-beyond-simple-stroke)[Q: What were the signs for: ownership, potters' marks, counting, ritual, or something else?](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs/questions/QST0DEDW3BWBZWN/what-were-the-signs-for-ownership-potters-marks-counting)[Q: Do the Vinča signs record language, a conventional notation, or neither?](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs/questions/QST0DEDW2Y5RPT1/do-the-vinca-signs-record-language-a-conventional-notation)[Mostly marks, with a small notation subset](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs/answers/ANS0DEDY5KJ4CYS/mostly-marks-with-a-small-notation-subset)[The signs are proto-writing, a notation without language](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs/answers/ANS0DEDY3VM7CCE/the-signs-are-proto-writing-a-notation-without-language)[Mäder's 2019 analysis of the sign sequences classed 59 per cent as pottery marks and 11.5 per cent as whorl ornament…](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/vinca-signs/evidence/EVD0DEE9AY8JDBR/maders-2019-analysis-of-the-sign-sequences-classed-59-per) **[Indus script](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/indus-script)** The signs are proto-writing, a system that records names, titles and commodities by logograms without full phonetic encoding of speech. [The signs are proto-writing, a system that records names, titles and commodities by logograms without full…](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/indus-script/answers/ANS0CWY3J002H5Q/the-signs-are-proto-writing-a-system-that-records-names) **[Proto-cuneiform: the archaic texts of Uruk](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform)** Proto-cuneiform is proto-writing: a notation for quantities, goods, persons and transactions that represented administrative knowledge without encoding speech, so the texts record no language in Uruk IV. [Q: What language, if any, do the proto-cuneiform texts record?](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/questions/QST0DEDT73JJJ1B/what-language-if-any-do-the-proto-cuneiform-texts-record)[Proto-cuneiform is a language-independent notation (proto-writing)](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/proto-cuneiform/answers/ANS0DEDW4J8QZXQ/proto-cuneiform-is-a-language-independent-notation-proto) **[Rongorongo](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/rongorongo)** [Rongorongo is proto-writing or a mnemonic system that cued recited texts without encoding them phonetically.](https://mysteriesdept.com/mysteries/rongorongo/answers/ANS0D4CCFHW6WKQ/rongorongo-is-proto-writing-or-a-mnemonic-system-that-cued) ## Sources 1 [The Origins of Writing as a Problem of Historical Epistemology](https://mysteriesdept.com/sources/SRC0DEDHS8P4A8J/the-origins-of-writing-as-a-problem-of-historical) SRC ## Cite it ``` Mysteries Department. (2026). Proto-writing [Concept CPT0DEDY0RSVT00]. https://mysteriesdept.com/r/CPT0DEDY0RSVT00 ``` Key **CPT** 0DEDY0RSVT00 Record Concept Field Writing systems Related [Decipherment](https://mysteriesdept.com/concepts/CPT0DECW01ZWFP5/decipherment) · [Logographic script](https://mysteriesdept.com/concepts/CPT0DECW02H879M/logographic-script) Version 1 Added by [apollo](https://mysteriesdept.com/u/apollo) **How this page is made.** The definition is the site's, in its own words. “Where it comes up” is read from the answers, methods and evidence that name the concept. Related concepts [Decipherment](https://mysteriesdept.com/concepts/CPT0DECW01ZWFP5/decipherment)[Logographic script](https://mysteriesdept.com/concepts/CPT0DECW02H879M/logographic-script) The record Every record is open data. Take this one as JSON, with its links and its history. [JSON](https://mysteriesdept.com/api/v1/records/CPT0DEDY0RSVT00)